Let’s talk about the “S” Word in Dental Implant Practices
In this episode, Jacob Hiller and Greg Essenmacher explore the patient education strategies and the main strategies to use when growing a full-arch dental implant practice.
Listen to find out how Greg and his team of experts are helping dentists dominate their local dental implant market!
Why Partner with GnA Consult, LLC?
Greg Essenmacher is a leading expert in Fixed Full-Arch dentistry, helping transform single-office practitioners into successful implant practices who frequently transform into large group practices. Using tailored solutions and cross-functional collaboration, he maximizes their potential. Greg’s expertise includes optimizing patient acquisition costs, refining team responsibilities, coaching for lead calls, and improving treatment planning. His insights on actionable steps enhance the practice’s ability to deliver Full Arch cases, increasing their valuation and improving EBITDA.
As the founder of GnA Consult, Greg has been focused for nearly a decade on the Fixed Full Arch market following the successful launch of the Neodent brand into the U.S. market for the Straumanngroup. Implementing best practices from some of the most successful Full Arch clinics in the country, he achieves desired results by helping dentists and dental professionals achieve their potential. Additionally, Greg is the host of The Tooth Sleuth podcast, all about the business of dentistry, and Sr. Director of Business Development for 3D Diagnostix.
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Let’s talk about the “S” Word
Read the full conversation with Full-Arch experts, Greg Essenmacher and jacob hiller
Jacob Hiller: Hello, everybody. This is Jacob Hiller with dental implant machine. What we do is help people find educate and treat more dental implant patients we have today with us Greg, Essenmacher and Greg is one of the leading experts in fixed full art dentistry. He’s helping transform single office practitioners. It’s a successful implant practices who frequently transform into large group practices. So he uses tailored to lucid solutions and cross functional collaboration maximum to maximize their potential Greg’s expertise includes optimizing, patient, acquisition costs refining, team responsibilities Coaching for lead calls and improving treatment plan is insights on actionable and actionable steps. Enhance the practices ability to deliver full art cases, increasing their valuation and ultimately improving their Ebida. So as founder of GNA Consulting, Greg is focused for nearly a decade on Fix full art market, following successful launch of the dent brand.
Jacob Hiller: US market like to talk about that a little bit too and implementing best practices from some of the most successful full arts clinics in the country yet. He’s not desired result by helping Dennis and dental professionals achieve their potential. Additionally Greg is the host of the toothless which I recently listened to as well which is all about the business of dentistry and as the senior director of the business development for 3D diagnostics. So that’s Greg, so happy’re here. you really wanted to talk about in the sales word today.
Greg Essenmacher: I’m glad you said sales. There’s other s words that we probably shouldn’t say and put out into the public.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah, exactly told my team that today, and one of my markers said, You mean search? I’m like that. Exactly. So,…
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah.
Jacob Hiller: Greg tell me a little bit, what brought you to dental, how did you get here?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, I appreciate the question. it wasn’t a straight line. It was definitely a journey to get into dental, after graduate school. I was an idealist who went to Capitol Hill and worked there for a few years, then I came out to Phoenix. So, I’m originally from Detroit, I moved to Phoenix and was gonna open up a golf driving range with a buddy of mine. And that didn’t work because he wanted to go and try professional golf and that’s And landed in rental car of all things. And that’s really where I got the heart of my sales training from the Front Line Performance Group and it was a fantastic education. I was a corporate sales trainer for them and really learned foundationally from them. After that company got sold.
Greg Essenmacher: and I was looking at medical and happened into a dental opportunity and remember very clearly to this day that interview with who became my first Boston dental. And he’s like, I have all these other interviews today with people who have so much dental experience, Why should I hire you? And I said, Because a year from now, you’re gonna want five of me. And I just worked harder to make sure that was true. And that was my first job in dental. I was there from 07 to 2013 and that led me into once that company was sold off, search for a little bit that year and that’s where the opportunity you mentioned Neodent, and that’s where need an opportunity came along to launch the brand into the US market and that’s where I found my way into full Arch. Neo Dent did for those of implants new and didn’t have an index picture level impression coping when we launched into the US market because in Latin America where it was founded and was prevalent, they do everything at the abundant level so they place the abutment same day of surgery and work abutment level. And so
Greg Essenmacher: It’s just not ideal for singles because you can’t use everything with a jig. So we went right to the full arch market. We first launched in the US in 2013 and so that’s how I fell into again, the full arch market and really just fell in love with it and building and growing practices and groups into full art.
Jacob Hiller: we love full arts because such a huge impact on the office and such a huge impact on the patient and you just kind of give up on it. awesome stuff. what was your role with that? Neo dent launch were you in the marketing side in the sales side?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah. So initially it was sales they had zero dollars in sales initially when I joined the group and there is 15 of us sales individuals ahead of sales. And then the head of sales about eight months after launch moved on to another opportunity. And they asked me to step into that role. So I did after a period of time, a little bit less than a year after being exhausted that opportunity ended. And that’s when I started my consulting business and learned The first time around in my consulting business in 2015.
Greg Essenmacher: Good learning opportunities. We’ll call them right. mistakes are things. You don’t learn from and so Then I ended up back with after a couple of years, explosive growth with the Neodent brand and I had an opportunity to rejoin the group and really be able to take everything that I learned and learn how to become a consultant to practices and did that with growing and building a team. And then collaborating cross-divisionally within the strawman group. And really, that’s where applying a lot of the principles that I had learned and started implementing with my consulting business with practices and helping them to grow and scale, which was a phenomenal opportunity with a really great company and did that for the next two to three years before going off and branching out on my own full-time really in 2021 and some other opportunities too. with 3D diagnostics that we talked about,
Jacob Hiller: As far as being a consultant obviously there are so many different directions. you meet an office, they want to become a full arch implant office really focus on that. Where do you find, is your kind of unique kind of genius as far as helping them? Is it and the marketing on the process or on the sales side, where do you feel like you make the biggest impact for these offices?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, so there’s really two lanes, So those that are already doing full arch and that’s where most of my business has been historically for the last couple of years. and I’ll talk about the other side. Those that want to implement full arch into their practice here in just a little bit of you give me time but really, those that are already doing full arch and really focusing on profitability cash flow and, a bit of that you mentioned and…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: a lot of it really is helping them as more of a business partner to look at all the pieces of the system and what I call the patient Walk flow. So it’s every touch point of that patient doing external marketing with dental implant machine or whatever group they’re doing it with from First, touch point of that patient, right from the lead, call ringing helping them to really make that connection with the patient, right? So the patient experience answering the phone connecting with them with empathy, making an emotional connection. All the way through to the time, they walk into your practice. Do you look like a full large practice? Do they even know you do full arch by what they see, all the way through the Exper.
Greg Essenmacher: Experience with those of the dental assistants taking the records, talking to the doctor, doing the consultation, Do you have the right tools in place, Helping them and guide into the point of saying? Yes, if it happens to be a full arch candidate, some aren’t right. Some just need some work. That can help them because they have teeth They can save, right? Just…
Greg Essenmacher: because you’re a hammer, doesn’t mean everything’s a nail and you have the ability to do it and really what that whole process is. So it’s coaching and training of the team which
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: I do some of that, yes, especially on lead calls and whatnot. That’s where a lot of my skill set is but I bring in other consultants, treatment coordinators and whatnot better. It’s very highly skilled, in closing of those big cases and…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: so I play more general contractor business partner with these practices and help them to take a holistic approach of their business and practice and say, where do you need to get better for whether they want to do a capital event, or just have that franchise location, pand Or if they have multiple locations, they want to expand into other locations. So it’s not a one-size-fits, Here’s the system,…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: shove it down their throat, It’s more of How can I help you in a more holistic way, What do you need help with? And I’ve got some resources, I can bring in to be able to make that happen for you.
Jacob Hiller: I see. So it sounds like you really focus on the patient’s journey and where they insert themselves in that process and how things like sales and marketing play into that So what is the first step of the patient journey? I know we all have our own idea of what the patient journey is. But in the way you approach things, where does that patient journey begin?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, it’s really in the branding, and people think of branding as, your website or, even in the advertisement, So, what is the ad say, how are you reaching them? And the ads can be anywhere. you’re familiar with this at Dental Implant Machine, right? It can be, an add-on Paperclick on Google ads or it can be on any of the socials Tiktok YouTube in name it right television radio. It’s that piece of branding but it’s also the branding of, the sound that the callback time or answering the phone in the practice. that’s really the first touch point of the patient and do those two match
Greg Essenmacher: Does it even match and then it continues on right with the branding within the office. I know you said the first touch point, but is there consistency throughout once they get into the practice and my friend Sherene Washington, just posted something and you talk about a killer closer, I’d love to have her on my team Shareen if you’re listening. Come on my team. I’m kidding.
Jacob Hiller: That.
Greg Essenmacher: We care about that all the time but she was quoting a study that was done that 55%
Greg Essenmacher: Of messaging is nonverbal, So even when they walk into the practice, how are the folks that they first encounter holding themselves? How are they greeted with all that nonverbal communication? Let alone how they’re being treated when they get taken into the back, right? If you have this super challenging oral health history and now you’re being brought into the back, right? You move past that front desk area, into the clinical area, the fear the anxiety and everything they’re experiencing right. The branding of, How are the clinical individuals, the dental, assistants, the doctors, Do they walk by and just kind of side idea because they’re really busy, or Don’t even look at you, or are they pleasant? Are they calm? What is that? Feel in that experience? And so the branding all the way through and now your question was about the first touch point but it’s really that consistency all the way through. That makes such a huge difference for those patients, especially with the big cases in full arch that guides them into the ability to say. Yes. Because they’re watching and sensing all along.
Greg Essenmacher: Way, for sure.
Jacob Hiller: That’s it. So giving them continuity from that first experience to the phone call, to the office, just giving the continuity of their messaging throughout the entire process. Is that right?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah. Absolutely,…
Greg Essenmacher: absolutely And I know that, a big messaging that your team because I’ve spoken with members of your team and a lot of the coaching that’s done by, coaching by your coaches, right? That are done by your team members because you have that ability to and that’s on the side. I was talking about the side of those practices that they’re doing a bunch of full art already, right? That I integrate with a big piece of my business, And another side of the business is those that want to add full arch, as a new vertical or as a top line production, just as you would add clear liners or tooth whitening or whatever the case may be to a general practice, that does the bulk of their business outside. And one of those pieces is, if you’re gonna do that, there’s an 11 step process that I’ve worked with others on to be able to create this and there’s a lot of opportunity to look at it.
Jacob Hiller: So yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: One of those pieces, if you don’t have the ability to internalize all those pieces right away. There’s resources, like dental, implant machine or others, To answer the phones to be able to vet those calls in a way because it’s super competitive full arch, especially if you’re doing external marketing is super competitive about there, times answering calls. So that your patient acquisition cost which isn’t cheap, I mean two to three thousand dollars for a patient acquisition costs and it doesn’t mean that, you say. Okay, here’s $3,000. I want to full arch patient. This doesn’t work that way, It’s the law of averages, right? What’s your team knows?
Jacob Hiller: Yeah, yeah. Right.
Greg Essenmacher: And so it’s really important to understand that you can outsource some of it until you’re ready to bring it internal until the economies of scale makes sense. And I think that’s a big piece of it of what to outsource if you’re gonna, add it into your practice in that other column, which is something that I’ve been working with a number of practices on as well, when they want to introduce it, how to grow and scale. That’s what we did. So much at Neo Den as well to be able to help build and grow practices.
Greg Essenmacher: Because they all didn’t start out doing 20 arches a month, They started with one every six weeks and then how do you build and grow in scale because that’s got to be done in a systematic way as well.
Jacob Hiller: I see you mentioned a couple items I wanted to touch on but before I did I wanted to bring up The sales word I just find. it’s such a controversial word in dentistry. We know we need to help patients envision and make the right decision for their own health and at the same time, we can’t be pushy and there’s ethics involved with it. From the work that you’ve done. Do you find that doctors are reticent to you sales in their practice or to use that word?
Greg Essenmacher: I mean, the interesting thing about sales is that we do it every all day throughout our entire life, right? You…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: if you go into a restaurant, you want a better seat by the window because your parents are visiting in town or, you’re on a date. You want to press your date, you’re trying to sell, right, your opportunity with the host or hostess that’s up front to get the table, by the window, rather than sitting, by the bathroom.
Greg Essenmacher: You’re selling, Or even in that same scenario,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: you’re going on a dates. If you’re married, you were selling yourself the whole time as the right prospect for your potential spouse. I mean, we’re selling ourselves every day, all day, if we’re trying to get things. and so sales is not a bad word right now. There are the extremes right where people have been oversold to or they haven’t built value in what it is that you’re offering to them. And so sales gets a bad taste in their mouth but there’s opportunity and so in a scenario you bring forward so clinicians. For example, some of them aren’t very good at that sale site which means building the value in because they might be really good at the clinical, but not so good at building, the value and patient facing and that’s okay.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: Then structuring in the practice of how to be more heavily focused on the treatment coordinator side of the walk flow process of a The patient engagement and I have practices that I work with that have all different kind of system.
Greg Essenmacher: Thumbs of, how is it set up some have?
Greg Essenmacher: An individual that does the prerecords when the patient comes in. And then it’s a financial coordinator. Does that piece some actually have from the lead call all the way through. It’s one person and the doctor has very little engagement and all different, kind of combinations in between. So it just depends on How do you maximize the skill set? That’s existing, that’s most comfortable. And then that really is guiding the patient on their journey Because sales is confidence, But sales happen all the time and if you’re really doing it a responsible way, with the patient that’s for their best outcome because it’s not just, this is the only thing we can do for you. I mean, There’s always better best right options especially in dental. I mean, Sometimes there’s an only way if they’re in extreme pain right to get them. Out of pain is an urgent need but there’s different levels of ways to be able to resolve in most scenarios and that’s what’s most important. But to the sales piece and aspect, there’s many different ways tomask shortcomings or areas of opportunity. I like to say,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: Within practices. So I think it’s important to just address it head on and not shy away from the fact that ultimately it is right, it is sales that’s happening but it’s more of guiding the patient on their journey to what’s a better outcome for them and what matches their needs and what matches their desire for an outcome within your practices.
Jacob Hiller: I see, I love that word that you use to guide and I like to think of ourselves as guides along that patient, journey along that walk flow that you said, I like that word. You had walk flow And in that process, there’s that first call you talked about time to contact. And from your experience. How long should we wait after receiving a message from a patient to call that patient? Back. what’s the ideal? Return call for a patient. How quickly should we respond?
Greg Essenmacher: We should really be measuring it in seconds. Maybe in minutes, certainly not an hours because that inspiration in my experience and these are best practices, right? That coming from working with dozens and dozens, hundreds of locations, that they’ve experienced. But when I say dozens and dozens these would be, phone banks, call centers, I like to call them lead calls reps that I work with. It’s really in best practices. It’s not, Greg says this. So it’s the word from God to Greg to you it’s really best practices. And the reason I say that is again many of these patients that are calling have gone a long time and build up the courage to call or especially in the last six, eight twelve months they’ll drop bread crumbs all along the way, But they’re snooping around their patience and prospects because they’re not patience yet are very savvy and they’re much more diligent and who they’re gonna
Greg Essenmacher: Out So they’re moving on to next and sometimes it’s the first to call that gets the opportunity to have a conversation and make the connection, which potentially would bring them in for a consult to learn more about your practice. And if it’s a fit for them to move forward in their patient journey for their brand new smile. And so when you look at those pieces it really is if you can’t answer it right when they call it should be within three to five minutes if not seconds right? ideal is seconds or answer it when it first rings and it never ceases to amaze me when I engage with the new client. I always start with the lead calls.
Greg Essenmacher: Because that is the first point of contact, and it’s really where the biggest holes in the funnel are and where the most leakage is. And then, as a marketing company, I’m sure, it’s the market, the marketing’s not working, the leads are bad, and it’s like, let’s look at what we’re working with and try to maximize what we’re working with. Because when you can generate say, one new patient, One new start for a full art if it’s just a single arch, right? If it’s a full mouth rehab, 40 50,000 just depends on where you’re at. But even if it’s a single arch, 20 25,000 in a month. when you annualize that out, two, three hundred thousand dollars in your practice, 400,000 into your practice, without adding anything additional top side, cost marketing, light still stay on all your fixed costs are the same No more labor, none of that additional maybe just the components, right? That’s significant.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: When you look at the piano statement, your profitability, at the end of the year, and it doesn’t sound like a lot.
Greg Essenmacher: Because It’s really just changing, very small things that you can show up.
Jacob Hiller: Right? The small hinges, swing big doors and it only takes a few extra arches. Are in your case. As you said, one a month and really be a big revenue driver. I loved
Greg Essenmacher: I like that. I hadn’t heard that one before. Small hinges, swing big doors. I’m gonna borrow that one from you. So we can borrow from each other on this, right?
Jacob Hiller: Thank you all that one and I’m gonna borrow measure your callback time in seconds. I like that a…
Greg Essenmacher: Okay, you got it deal.
Jacob Hiller: And we’ve seen that too and there’s been studies This show that if you wait even five minutes, the likelihood of making a connection starts to decrease and drop off knowing that the callback time, really optimizes your opportunity to connect with the patient and also knowing that a lot of these offices don’t have a full-time caller or appointments that are scheduler, what systems do? You help an office put in place so they can actually call back in seconds or minutes. Although they don’t have maybe a full-time dedicated person for that. Is there any tips you can give our doctors for that?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, I mean there’s definitely a couple of pieces and you’re talking about again, this other column adding into, if they don’t have somebody full-time. And once they reach a certain capacity, it makes sense right to add in that piece, and I’ll answer that. But one thing I’ll add as well is it’s not saying, I have Chris or I have John or I have Jody up front. That answers the calls, when the phone rings, having it come into the same line as the regular, new patient line, or insurance verification or existing patient line, that’s a bad recipe, right? Because this is the phone ring for potential 20 30 50 thousand dollar case it should be handled differently and I certainly recommend in the beginning to outsource that,…
00:25:00Jacob Hiller: but,
Greg Essenmacher: So whether it’s a marketing company that you’re working with that handles it, that has, a phone bank for lack of a better term, right resources or…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: there’s other companies that actually do that type of work, I don’t want to lock people and say you have to use the marketing company because some people are a little lyrics. I don’t want to put all my
Greg Essenmacher: Someone basket. But if you think about it, if it is the marketing company, you’re working with, they know the messaging and that’s critically important. The communication piece. I work with practices and I can’t tell you how many times that one of the very first things I do. I do an off as assessment day before I even get really deeply involved with practices. And I’ll simply ask the question of everybody who’s involved in the patient walk flow So tell me’s being marketed. What’s out there for how much what’s in the advertisement out there? I know you guys advertise on different platforms because it can be different on different platforms, Radio says, If you call in, you can get 1500 dollars off an arch for x amount of time period. Or on here, with this landing page. And on here, it says this and it
Greg Essenmacher: And not everybody knows what it says right now. I also teach and I coach that know your role and your primary purpose, So if you’re dedicated lead call, rep don’t want you selling that. Unless they want you sell on that, getting detailed information because somewhat, only really qualified leads that come in, because they’re scheduled super tight and others are like no, bring them in, will work with them once they’re in on what’s best for them. So, it depends on that as well, There’s no cookie cutter, right? It’s very specific to practice but that communication piece, which is critically important. So if it is the marketing company you’re working with, that’s handling those lead calls, Because that’s what they do. They’re dedicated to do that. They know all of that messaging which is critically important because if you’re not listening to the patient and responding back to what they’re saying, The paraphrasing piece which is all about empathy, they want to be heard, You’re making that initial connection. That’s critically important if they’re gonna, think about investing in your practice at least like blessing.
Greg Essenmacher: Because no show rates can be high and that starts to get into a whole nother thing, Because you don’t want to block a time in your schedule and you have, 40 50% show rate. I mean that gets to be insane. And that’s another thing that I work with practices on too, It’s like okay, if you’re not sure rights out of control, what’s the messaging What’s not happening on those calls to schedule, the appointments and book, those appointments, and the pull through? so that’s a rabbit hole. We could go down, that’s something else. But I mean it speaks to answering the phone knowing what’s on those advertise where you advertising, What does it say, making the initial connection, having the information and making sure those patients do show up which there’s different philosophies there too. Right. Do you take a deposit? Do you? Not right. The more restrictive. You are the more challenging It is to get the patience onto the schedule but also the likelihood of reduction of, no show, right? So it’s a catch.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: 22 of what philosophy you want to implement for sure.
Jacob Hiller: I’d see Greg you said something I thought was interesting, and what, a full art patient calls. I mean, it’s essentially potentially a 40,000 phone call and missing that call would be a big deal, or perhaps, not understanding that. That’s a really important call. Would that mean that Let’s say the office wants to do it on their own. Would you recommend that it comes through the hotline, or a different phone some way to register it? Have you done that before?
Greg Essenmacher: A thousand percent, should be a different line, right? It should be a different phone number and also that goes back to tracking the source of,…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: where it comes from, to understand, where it’s coming from, and then routing it somewhere differently, That tracking is critically important, It’s all about tracking. And then also, the call recording, which is critically important. So, to be able to listen to an audit and coach to that lead call. Right. You ask somebody, did you remember to use my simple formulas Eazy right? E is for empathy, did you Empathy, a is it Then they called the right place? It’s and also acknowledged, know what they said, answer their questions and…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: ask another question, and then Z don’t put him to sleep have a little more energy than they have and then create a sense of urgency and you can ask them all day. did you do this? And I’ve been coaching for a long time. On these lead calls and amazing how they believe they did. But you can’t really coach too unless you can hear what they said and the back and forth and then give them a lift up and say, in the very beginning,
Greg Essenmacher: Example, I just listened to one an hour ago and the patient talked about. I feel that one of your surveys online. I know you’ve left a couple of messages. I’ve just been super busy. Once they say, I’ve been super busy, one of your responses, if you have an opportunity, you lace in there. the great thing is We can get you in tomorrow at 2:00 o’clock or we have something, Friday at one which works better for that duality and you say that and then Absolutely talk about the fact. great, I’m gonna send you the online forms. If you do that, when you have an opportunity to fill that out, we can expedite your visit and you just layer in there, consistently what they talked about in the very beginning. I’m really busy great. in our practice because we have an in-house lab, we can reduce the number of visits to get you your brand new smile, right? Use your unique selling proposition. You’re always layering in what they’ve said, to be able to give back to them so that they
Greg Essenmacher: Be they’re meeting me where I’m at and Wow, sounds like they really care about what I’ve already told them just in the first few minutes. But you have to have the call recording and be able to coach to that because if not, you don’t have an opportunity to lift that up or give that piece of coaching to the person who’s taking that lead call and I was able to share that and it was that moment to be able to share with that person. They’re like,
Greg Essenmacher: Got it. And so then, I’ll listen for that, in later calls to see if they’re picking up on that. And that’s how you’re really building a team. And that’s where value can be brought in as a coach, as a consultant to help them build and grow and watching those practices grow. And I’ve done that with practices where you watch the team members grow and then the job satisfaction increases and it leads into so many other things, all the job market so tired, it’s time difficult to get good people. great. then how are you rewarding them when they do have that? But besides the job satisfaction, they have, besides the fact they feel better about, wow, I really feel like I’m contributing right. It doesn’t mean you have to throw tons of money at them, but where’s the reward pieces? And that’s what I coach like, the dentist and the founders, and the owners as well, is, How do we show them appreciation and multitude of ways, financially and other. So the job satisfaction goes up, so you don’t have that crunch of. how do I replace somebody as well? So there’s so much to what ideas and I’m throwing it all latches.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah. Yeah. Love
Greg Essenmacher: So yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: Tell people to take, no, it’s go back on the transcript and take. No, it’s because This is the keys,…
Jacob Hiller: that will give some bullets too,…
Greg Essenmacher: the kingdom. I’m trying to get them. Yeah.
Jacob Hiller: but I love the different lines so that when that call comes through the doctor everybody knows we have a VIP call come in and then I also love your eas empathy acknowledge there was another one that you use for the day.
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, assurance so it’s the assurance.
Jacob Hiller: Great.
Greg Essenmacher: And in there is the acknowledge answer and ask, and then z don’t put them to sleep, Create a sense of urgency and elevate with the energy and the voice. Yep. plus it’s easy…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah, okay, nice. And then you,
Greg Essenmacher: and they’re like, it’s easy.
Jacob Hiller: empathy acknowledge, and No sleeping. So the other,…
Greg Essenmacher: Yep.
Jacob Hiller: the other thing that you brought up and I heard a lot of people bring this up, but is compensating your appointment scheduler? And so how important is it to give them your scheduler a compensation some type of bonus, and how do you usually go about that?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, there’s a lot of different ways to incentivize that, some of my clients will do it by consults that actually show up. Others will do it based on, converting and closing. So it eliminates the silos. So they’re actually involved in the whole process. So all of those that are in the touch point pieces, some will do it on a flat dollar basis. Some will do it on a percentage basis. So there’s all different ways to compensate and I work hand in hand and, I’m grateful for the experiences that I’ve had in dental to What does that look like? And that’s where the profitability piece comes in when I talk about profitability and cash flows and working on improving Evita because if you have cases where you offer more than one solution on finals and you’re really trying to target a couple of different markets, then the percentage base makes more sense than a flat dollar because it doesn’t, maybe not so much on lead calls because it’s minimal. But when you’re looking at all the different touch points so that as the practice continues to grow, if
Greg Essenmacher: That’s what you want to grow in your business, as a percentage of business. Then it really grows as a percentage and it doesn’t really affect the margins as much if you have a flat dollar amount, then you offer a different level of service, then you’d have to change things around or change the dollar amount. So giving percentages is something where everybody then is looking at that end goal and driving toward the same thing which is trying to, give that gold standard to all the patients if there is an opportunity to do so with those patients,
Jacob Hiller: I see so you recommend the offices, you work with to offer some type of compensation, whether a flat bonus or percentage points, so that when that call comes through, there’s also some incentive on the office to handle it properly.
Greg Essenmacher: And there’s that incentive too of, success in the job. And then also, as they’re succeeding that they’re being compensated as such too. It keeps them engaged. as they get more successful and it doesn’t hurt too. So they actually pay more attention to the coach. It’s a little self-serving.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: No it helps the practice, of course, but yeah, everybody likes to be incentivized, I mean that’s why they get into sales roles and then it’s also that the last piece too is showing that there’s opportunity to build and grow a lot of the offices that I work with, I shared with you, that they’re singles and many of them turn into multiple practices or they have other plans, it gives them opportunity to build and grow within the group or within the practice, within the industry and helping them to see opportunities of within the group organization and having those conversations and structuring those conversations of, what is your goal and encouraging that rather than I’m losing someone. It’s how do we
Greg Essenmacher: Building grow with them and help them to grow into roles and supporting that. Which I think is critically important as well and give them the resources to do so.
Jacob Hiller: I see, and one thing that’s really interesting. Greg and I love that. You’re the idea of rewarding them and not just the compensation, but just recognizing and whether that’s recording and going through calls. One thing we see is leadership and how important is it for the doctor to, they have so many things going through their head, they’ve got to pay rent, they’ve got to find people. They’ve got hygiene. They’ve got insurance numbers, And so a lot of them might think. Hey, let me just get a marketing company and they do it or let me just our consultant and they can work with my team. How important is it for the doctor to have some skin in the game and to be involved in that process or is it something that they can just hand to their team? Do you feel that they need to be heavily involved?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah. I mean, it’s a really good question. And when you look at Dr, Involvement, it’s not so much that the doctor has to lead every initiative into the detail. a lot of them will be involved but them delegating to their team members and it depends on the size and the structure of the group and organization of course. But it’s also,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: beholden on those team members right, if there’s a lead group of individuals, to meet and give that information and be able to support and lift up the clinician to give them the pieces and information to go out and then support, So if a lead call member and it’s all based on metrics, So if you track it you can attack it, So if you are watching somebody build and grow, I set up weekly, opportunities to look at not just top line revenue productivity bottom line but it’s also about, what is the growth of the practice in different departments? And how are they doing individuals and tracking them. We set the goals of what are you trying to attain? And as you’re building and growing,
Greg Essenmacher: Having that at hand, and then being able to coach, with the dentist, because I do that often right, whether it’s the owner/founder or even others in the practice in different departments, especially in full arch, being able to share and say, here’s something that we’ve seen, Here’s here’s the opportunities, being able to do an attaboy or an add a girl or way to go, a shout out. It goes a long way especially as the organization gets larger, right? Because the clinician, the founder becomes more removed unless they’re just in, a business role if will, especially if they’re in a clinical role and they’re in surgeries because they become more and more removed from that day to day, especially from a lead call role as groups, expand out like that. So it’s really they opportunity for, a consultant to be able to give that information. But for me to actually coach the lead team internally, because my role typically, is a six-month proposal to come in, get them going in the right direction, given the tools and resources, and then really remove
Greg Essenmacher: From this situation. I try to work myself out of a job, so I can go and help other groups, unless it morphs into a different type of role with most of my clients.
Jacob Hiller: I see so really just give them the framework, give them the tools and get everybody, the same vision, and then let them manage it from there.
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, or morph into a different role, So that’s one of the biggest pieces of how I help clients is to help them form in structure and then it can transform into a different type of role. But being able to get them set on the right path to where they’re the first thing is the vision, right? And then helping them to execute internally, which, that there’s a lot of pleasure in that. And most of my former clients end up, in some shape, or Keep me on, as an advisor, or some way that we stay connected, which is very rewarding to watch them build and grow in their organizations. It’s a lot of fun to watch.
Jacob Hiller: And, we were talking about marketing and sales, we’re talking about, the patients experience from before they get in office. And a lot of the tracking tools that a dentist might have, tracks how their insurance is going through or when their appointment is set. But what kind of tools would you recommend so that they can take more ownership of the entire patient journey to manage that pipeline? Do you have any tools that you recommend to help them track those things? And see that progress? A little bit before they get into the office or what tools? Do you recommend there?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, there are many that are out there, what, I’m gonna morph your question a little bit because what I would love to see,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: is one tool in full arch that follows it all the way right from the very first, which is, the marketing campaign through the touch point of the lead,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: call through the patient through the person who does the treatment planning. All the way through the surgery and then be able to come back and do the revenue touch point. And think, consolidated at all and go right back to the marketing campaign and be able to understand the entire and be able to pull any verticals out of any of it. To really have a comprehensive and I’ve talked to friends in the industry and tech stack and I’ll be talking about it a little bit next month as well on a panel and…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: it’s like, Can somebody find it? You can pull pieces and it can be patched together, actually know what it costs would be to customize something like that. My friend regime,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: over at BPP, we’ve been talking bpk, we’ve
Greg Essenmacher: Talking about it. But when you’re talking about tools, there’s a lot of tools that are available, many companies have them and being able to look at, what is it? I mean, the patient acquisition cost is first and foremost, the cost per lead, if you’re doing Pay-per-click is important, Google Analytics is helpful, but it’s more of. What can you do with that information to be able to show what a campaign and the challenge is, It’s not instantaneous, That there’s not this instant gratification piece and unfortunately, we’re in an Amazon Prime society. If I order something a lot of times, they say, I can have it there in three hours. Depends, if you live in a major metropolitan area, I do, I live in Metro Phoenix, So we’re on this instant gratification type of society, So it’s hard to know Is it working type of situation? So the metrics that are in place? Are there? One of the things that I focus on really is the pipeline management. So it’s the piece after
Greg Essenmacher: Once they come in. I mean, if you’re closing at 25, 30 Percent Summit 40%. I actually have one of my people that I work with. I mean, she’s at, 80%, So the pipeline management isn’t that critical because she’s really good at it. But having tools in place for pipeline management, once it consults completed, right to reactivate reactivation to patients in general dentistry has been talked about a time but in full arch and really doing it in a comprehensive way, there’s a few partners that, I’ve been working with and talking to that. Do it really well, that we’ve been working with that. I think are great that I’ll talk about them another time. That’s really the whole pipeline management from front to end. If there’s one that could integrate all of it, I’d be super excited looking for it. there are some that are coming up with CRM systems in that vein, that I’m excited for what’s coming down the pipeline.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: And I would say Look for those because even if you can do chunks of it at a time,
Greg Essenmacher: It’s something that’s very valuable…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: because for me it’s all about with what you’re doing. Can you pull more out of it, Can you get more out of what you’re doing today? Because that’s where the value of myself or any other consultant that’s going to come in. That’s really where they should be making their money, five 10x of what you’re, contributing to them to come in and help you and coach and manage and train on a short term or a contract basis to be able to help your practice.
Jacob Hiller: I see. So there’s a lot of tools. You can mishmash them together. I know that When we started to give people what we call our command center. So that was where they could see the League come in. they third call, see if they booked an appointment and then track the revenue back to our marketing. So, when we started offering that tool and recommending, they put it on just on their desk, so they can see, basically, the flow of potential patients coming in. That was a big game changer for our pay for our clients because it wasn’t just leads there, receiving an email, how to figure out what to do because, front office has had is a sales manager. So, they haven’t had to deal with that. So, just getting that in place for them, has been really big for us to
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, and that’s I mean, if you look at any manufacturing company, any manufacturing and almost any vertical sales forces dominant, And that space in general and they can give you just about anything you want, depends on how much you’re willing to pay for it, But it seems like in dental, and in the patient journey with marketing campaigns. I mean, it’s great. I love that you have that, but being able to pluck out, and tag it to different individuals doing the lead calls individuals doing the treatment plan tag, it to doctors, who are participating in the consultant. I mean, it can get really, really nitty gritty and pieces like that just because I’m a day to driven guy,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: It’s all about data and statistics and for me, it’s where can I be of the most use when I’m doing my training sessions on a weekly basis of how we can really be more efficient in any practice that I work with? So yeah, it’s encouraging to hear that.
Jacob Hiller: I wanted to give you a few rapid-fire, little nugget questions.
Greg Essenmacher: Sure.
Jacob Hiller: Here’s one for you patient calls and they just want to know How do you handle the price seeking patient?
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah. Jacob, I really appreciate you asking about price. The challenge for us, is that every patient is different and I’m not the doctor we’d love to bring you in for a complimentary consultation and that way we can really find out exactly what’s better for you? We have an opening actually this afternoon at Thursday today at 3 o’clock, or Friday, tomorrow morning at 11:00, which one works better for you.
Jacob Hiller: There’s hit the Objection script right there,…
Greg Essenmacher: I mean that’s a simple way.
Jacob Hiller: you have to put that.
Greg Essenmacher: If they really start badgering and it goes on and on and on there’s other tools that I have. But that’s really the simple one, because it’s true, I mean, if it’s just a simple. I know, I need an all on x and it’s lower x. I’ve already gone through all that and they’re like, I’m not gonna come in unless it’s like you can really get longer into that answer. But the simple one it,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: which is true, We don’t know, Because truthfully in their maxilla if they have three millimeters of bone and they can’t get traditional implants and you’ve got to go to specialized implants, there’s Omar the terrigoids or something. I mean, this is a whole different ball game, right? And if they have nothing on the bottom, you got to do build up and
Greg Essenmacher: So I mean there’s no way even if they say what they need and it’s like, how do you know that? so are you on this? Phosphonates we have to wait six months and what changes in six months and are you medically compromised? And some of my locations have a registered nurse on step. I mean, there’s so many layers to it, so with the lead called folks, I’m like, No, we don’t go down the price. So yeah and that’s what I coach and train to. And it’s pretty effective for the vast majority of calls that they handle.
Jacob Hiller: So if they push on a range, Can you give me a minimum or maximum? Do you just still focus on? That’s why we want to get you in so we can give you that price.
Greg Essenmacher: yeah, and if it gets to that point, then a traditionally will move them into, have you considered what an investment in your oral health and brand new smile looks like
Greg Essenmacher: And then to go down that path where you really have more of a conversation about how they given some consideration and then start to work that way for the practices that typically just bring the patients in. We’ll work with them and aren’t really restrictive, So if they have a form, fill online or a survey, as more commonly, I’m getting into lingo right,…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah, right.
Greg Essenmacher: Foreign film. So if there’s a survey online and they don’t have your range of your credit score and things that nature. So it’s not restrictive. What I call again. I don’t speak marketing too well, but enough, that’s non-restrictive and that’s where even if there are Non-restrictive lead call generation just trying to book consoles, that’s where I would transition them and say, That’s where I would start to get a little bit more specific and start to generate more of If they’re going to be that way on the phone, Imagine what that patience like if you bring them in and if you lock into a number Now you’re locking in a number with the treatment coordinator, you don’t know the oral cavity, you don’t know what type of treatment therapy.
Greg Essenmacher: Going to need. So you really boxing everybody in and it really can turn into a challenging situation for the practice that they probably don’t want to be in any particular situation. So it’s not just to be difficult, right? And not share your number.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: I mean it’s really not like if you were to know and they had all and it’s like Here’s my treatment plan of everything that I need, What is that number? That’s not going to be a super secret, right? it’s just that you don’t have all the information and really sharing without all the information. It is just not a good place to be.
Jacob Hiller: I see. Yes, focusing on getting them in. It’s a fun we want to give them the price as well. And so that’s why I want to have you come in get a scan. So we can get that information to you Sometimes they may also be focused on the insurance. It may not know that often it’s not covered by insurance. How do you not push that patient away and still give them the right information when they’re asking for Acceptance.
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, I mean the insurance question is a little bit that depends on the practice itself because some, are still GP practices that accept insurance into a lot of business with, ppos in different insurance plans and some are strictly fee for service so it depends and I’m not dodging. The question.
Jacob Hiller: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: Totally willing to answer that even if they are a fever service and don’t bill insurance directly, which I do have clients that are like that, they’ll have them bring in your insurance card and we’ll look at competitive rates and we’ll be happy to provide all the documentation for you to be able to submit to your insurance for reimbursement.
Jacob Hiller: Okay, I see. Very nice. Greg.
Greg Essenmacher: Which is true. don’t you Molly documentation and they can bill and submit to their insurance. If there’s opportunity and then it lands it in the treatment coordinator’s hands once the patients in to talk through…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: because if it’s a single implant, maybe their PPO, or whatever will reimburse for partial, or all of an abutment or…
Jacob Hiller: Yeah.
Greg Essenmacher: half 50% of a crown but it’s out of network. And that’s insurance is not my game. So, I’m sure I can just see it now, like friends of mine when they see this, they’ll be in the notes and be commenting and being like, you don’t know what you’re talking about. It insurance, why did you say that? So I think it’s funny. So I’m glad I said something, so I could make it call out a few people, too. That will definitely call me out Chris Cena. Okay, I’ll stop there.
Jacob Hiller: Says, we want to give them information but we also don’t want to push them away or give them an expectation that they’re anchored on.
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, I mean it’s a party the A, Assurement called the right place, but it’s also acknowledged answer and ask another question. It’s not dodging. The question and it’s more about, How do you answer the question? Do you sound sketchy, Do you sound like, know what you’re talking about? Are you actually answering their question for him? And are you answering it? Truthfully. And then the biggest piece for me, really is what I call the handoff hand up to the next person, in the continuity of care chain within your practice. And that is
Greg Essenmacher: For the person, taking the lead call put in the notes, whatever you call it in that patient chart. If they book a consult put in the notes that you had that conversation about insurance so that when they do come in, the person is going to greet them or That’s gonna be doing the treatment court and the treatment plan. Whatever it is knows that conversate, they asked about insurance so they’re not surprised by it and they can even preempt it or bring it up or be ready to talk about it. Because that’s that communication piece that handoff hand up from every step of the patient journey, that walk flow of a patient. So that there’s no disconnection or break. I mean, it’s easy to talk about, you have a wedding coming up in December. great, that’s the sales side and that’s where people get salesy and why people are like sales. I don’t want to talk about that, but that’s really the patient care side, so that they don’t have to mention 17 times to every different person so that they know everybody’s working together that hand off and up. And the hand up piece, it reminds me of when I was a kid. I don’t know about you, but you put your
Greg Essenmacher: Hands together like this and you let them put their foot there and you lift them up over the fence. I don’t know when I was a kid in the Midwest, that’s what we did. That’s the hand up. That’s the visual I give people because that’s what it is. It’s not just handing a patient often information. It’s giving them a hand up. So that patients Don’t have to repeat themselves over and over, right? And you don’t have to be afraid to answer a question. You can bring it forward and there’s nothing like having somebody bring forward a concern that you had in the very beginning,…
Jacob Hiller: Hold it.
Greg Essenmacher: and you’re like, they really were listening. Now, I’m more open, I can take some of my defenses down a little bit and listen, because they do have my best interest in mind. And that’s really that patient experience. And that connection piece that really starts to make a difference in practice, is in groups that are looking at some of these higher ticket items that really start to make the difference with patience and success.
Jacob Hiller: I’d say and when you have the continuity of communication now, they feel like they have a relationship with the office instead of, Okay, I’m doing my numbers again, and I think we’ve all experienced that whether it’s hospital or where we have to keep saying. What happened? it’s my left eye. And feels like you said, the same thing over and over again. And it doesn’t feel like a relationship feels kind of like you’re not in a clunky process, so,
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, you’re not just the number to them. Yeah, Exactly and they want to feel like they’re being cared for and they’re much more open for sure.
Jacob Hiller: Greg is there I’m not asking you are? Is there any questions you want to ask me that? You’d like to bring up to the doctors who are watching this?
Greg Essenmacher: No. I could talk for hours on full art, it’s for me, on the one category if they’re doing a bunch of full art and you’re looking at profitability and cash flow and all that. It’s really about what is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish, Because it’s all about the leaks in the hose. Where are they? And when you’re in it, it’s hard to see it. And for me, it’s really about. I have the ability to bring the best practices of seeing it in a lot of different places and being able to take it and say, I’ve seen this here and this will probably work. I’ve seen this work and this is what it looks like, So a discovery call is pretty simple. The other side though, is that adding it to a GP practice that they’re looking to and really it’s an eyes wide open, right? So the piece that I always talk about on that is eyes wide open. It’s not like adding clear, liner therapy to your practice, it’s not like adding tooth whitening to your practice, it really is comprehensive and being able to and understanding all the steps. And it doesn’t mean you have to do all the
Greg Essenmacher: Apps but bringing in expert teams, So what I call the triangle of success, So it’s the surgical aspect, it’s the restorative aspect. And the components aspect is be the only rookie in that. And even if you’re the rookie bringing in an expert to do the surgical, at first, while you’re learning and getting better at other pieces, that’s critically important, right? And that includes the marketing team and those that are coming in but know what that investment looks like up front. Know what if patient acquisition costs looks like Know what all the steps are that are involved and it doesn’t mean that you really have to run out and buy 200,000 in equipment but what the process looks like and bring in somebody who can help you with that. And that doesn’t necessarily mean bringing in a consultant like me It can mean bringing in somebody that you hire into your practice as a practice manager, as a business manager as ops as a regional manager who has experience from other and bringing it in, who understands the workflow and process and can help you with that. So that you’re learning from
Greg Essenmacher: Experience and understand the steps to implementation, so that you don’t get six months or a year into it. And then you’re disappointed because of the growth rate, or how you’re going about doing it, or the investment was greater than you thought it would be and the return isn’t there? As quickly as you were hoping it would be. I mean, if you catch lightning in a bottle, great, but be realistic about those expectations. So I don’t know if there’s a question in there that I was answering before the question was asked,…
Jacob Hiller: That.
Greg Essenmacher: but those are just some of the things that, I think of because, client success and doctors success and, going in eyes wide open is just critically important, especially in Fixful, Arch, because it’s big risk, but big reward, and not just financially with reward, but it’s also, I mean, the patient reveals that happen that you can do. Some life-changing procedures with patients, is just tremendously rewarding for myself and clinicians and entire offices and I couldn’t be more pleased. That it’s something that I fell into.
Greg Essenmacher: But it really have been pursuing after I kind of fell into it, if you will.
Jacob Hiller: I think awesome, so these officers who kind of got the idea they want to get into this, just to realize, Hey you’re adopting a real thing. You’re adopting a child here. this gonna be a new Whole structure for your office. There’s going to be a lot of moving pieces and just to understand that and to be ready for eyes wide open.
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, absolutely. stated that’s a good synopsis.
Jacob Hiller: Thanks Greg. a lot of our doctors are going to call on here, maybe catch a couple nuggets and want to reach out to you and see what the next steps are. So how can we get a hold of you? And what’s that next step? Look like
Greg Essenmacher: Yeah, a lot of different ways to find me. So, Greg Essenmacher, you can find me on, Instagram, you can find me. LinkedIn is a good way to connect with me, but also my website. So, dental consult the number four, the letter u.com. And it says, book a consulting session, honestly it’s just a discovery Call just a chat, just reach out and my cell phone numbers right there too. Text call me it’s really just a conversation. Where are you looking to get to? Let’s just have a conversation about it and I can just share some of my insights and we can just start there and then with clients of mine that are interested. In moving forward, I do an in-office assessment day. That’s the best way to move forward where I come to your practice or your flagship location. If you have multiple practices, I get a chance to do a very comprehensive review of, what are the challenges? What are the solutions? And what are the tools and resources needed? So it’s really just an entire assessment of exactly where you’re at and then you get all of that, you get the entire
Greg Essenmacher: Report of all that. And then you can make a decision moving forward if it makes sense for you or not. So that’s a really good way to know exactly where you’re at. If you’re on the earlier stages of implementation of fixable arch into your practice or group,
Jacob Hiller: I see. So if we have a doctor who’s interested, they can get a discovery and potentially an in-office visit from you. Is that just part of your discovery process or is that for a fee?
Greg Essenmacher: Yes, so the discovery call is free. We’ll talk about what it is as far as, based to do the in office because it’s a full day assessment and…
Greg Essenmacher: a full business analysis. Yep.
Jacob Hiller: Right. Okay.
Jacob Hiller: I will post your website below. You also have the two sleuth podcast. How often are you broadcasting?
Greg Essenmacher: So episodes drop every two weeks. Yeah. And for the in-office assessment mentioned,…
Jacob Hiller: Every two weeks.
Greg Essenmacher: dental implant machine and we’ll make sure that we just do it at cost for you.
Jacob Hiller: cool, thank you very much. And what’s your next podcast gonna be about?
Greg Essenmacher: Yep.
Greg Essenmacher: I’m trying to think at which ones, it’s on selling. Yeah, it’s good to come out on Tuesday.
Jacob Hiller: really okay.
Greg Essenmacher: That’s on Sunday. I don’t know how soon this is gonna come out and send out but it’s on selling and then yeah, I’ve got a few more incube, but I do know that because I just put together the show notes a few hours ago early this morning. I put together the show notes and it’s on one of my friends is on and…
Jacob Hiller: Okay.
Greg Essenmacher: she does on selling in case acceptance. And so yeah, that’s pretty funny that we’re talking about the s word and that’s what that episode is on. Yeah.
Jacob Hiller: Awesome. I don’t know if we recently brought in Robin Deckman as our trainer here, and so…
Greg Essenmacher: Did.
Jacob Hiller: if you ever she knows a lot more about the treatment consultation and the scheduling process So she’s a real superhero for us over here. So,
Greg Essenmacher: I know I want her to listen to this and critique and send me notes and be like, No, that’s not Greg, no kidding But I love her to listen and for us to chew a little bit and chew on things and there’s some ideas. I know I was talking with Jessica from your team on that and some opportunity to be able to do that. I’d love to do that. Sure.
Greg Essenmacher: Sure thing. Thanks Jacob, I appreciate it. Take care.